An interview with Link Hullar
CONDUCTED BY HOWARD HOPKINS (AFTERWORD BY DAVID WHITEHEAD)

Howard Hopkins

BHE: First, please tell us a bit about yourself.

LH: I am 50-"something" and have been married to Sharon going on 32 years. We have two "children": Lauren, who is married to Matt and expecting our first grandchild, and Lane, who is a freshman in high school and active in theater arts (as was his sister before him). I have written somewhere over 15 books and more than 100 articles, stories, etc.

2006 saw the publication of the 2nd edition of THE UNITED STATES: A BRIEF NARRATIVE HISTORY by Hullar & Nelson. I have been teaching history for more than 30 years and I am currently studying for the priesthood in the Episcopal Church.

BHE: When did you begin writing Black Horse Westerns? LH: My first Black Horse western was one that I wrote with partner David Whitehead HELLER IN THE ROCKIES goodness, maybe 1991? — something like that... BHE: What attracts you to the books? The genre?

LH: I have ALWAYS been a fan of WESTERNS. As a kid it was the movies and TV (I am a HUGE Roy Rogers fan) then western fiction, especially the Nevada Jim books by Len "Marshall McCoy" Meares and, of course, Louis L'Amour. I am very much a "traditionalist" where westerns are concerned. I want a good guy/bad buy story (yes, ROY ROGERS!) so the "morality play" element is a strong attraction for me.

BHE: Tell us a bit about how you go about writing the books, research, writing habits, etc.

LH: I do very little specific research for any particular book. Years and years of reading about the old west and reading western fiction is my background so the work is in the writing and quite honestly I really HATE to write. It is WORK. It is NOT fun. And I rarely enjoy it. With that said here is the way I go about it:

IDEA... "bingo". It all begins with an idea, right? This is what gets me hooked and gets me in trouble, the IDEA. Once an idea starts eating at me, then the next step is to "flesh out" the idea into a paragraph or so to summarize a story. THEN I take that story summary and do chapter breakdowns. I will want to write 10 to 15 (or so) pages per chapter and so I figure out how can I develop this story over 10 chapters. Very mechanical right? You guessed it. I am NO creative genius. I am a very mechanical, routine sort of guy. I get it done because I work hard and do it. I'm a craftsman NOT an artist.

Okay, after I get these chapter breakdowns done I write a first draft just as fast as I can. I just bang the story out with little attention to detail or whatever, just get a good story on paper. The next time through on the second draft I fill in the detail, work on the dialogue and the descriptions and continuity. Then the FINAL run through is to clean up grammar and spelling and style, at which I am HORRIBLE (just read these responses). Then it goes in the mail and we WAIT. When I am writing I do NOT allow myself to stop until I complete the goal for the day, usually a chapter. It can take an hour or it can take all afternoon but I have NEVER failed to complete my daily goal (of course, I might have written garbage that must be RE-worked big time, but I put something on paper and got it done. NO writer's block allowed).

BHE: You've co-written a number of books with British writer David Whitehead. Can you give us some titles?

LH: First up, DAVID WHITEHEAD most certainly IS a creative genius and a fabulous western writer. He is a big time favorite of mine to read and his Carter O'Brien character is one of my all-time favorite western characters. DAVE IS TERRIFIC as a writer and a human being! Let's see, books we have written together: LOCKWOOD'S LAW (2000), APACHERIA (2000), MONTANA GUNSMOKE (1999), A QUEST OF HEROES with the late Len Meares (1996), TIN STAR TRIO with the late Len Meares (1994), HELLER IN THE ROCKIES (1992). I think that's all. We have also written a few articles together and a couple of stories for the comic magazine COMMANDO.

BHE: What is your procedure for collaborating with David? Do you write a chapter, then he takes the next, or does one of you do a draught, then revise?

LH: First up, DAVID WHITEHEAD is, without any doubt and without any exaggeration, the creative and literary BRAINS behind anything that we have written together. Seriously, in all but one of the above listed books HE was at least 70% to 80% and I was 20% and might well flatter myself to believe that I was 20%. I can NOT hold a candle to Dave as a writer. I am NOT in his league at all.

The only exception to the above comments is MONTANA GUNSMOKE (1999), which I did work up pretty heavy before turning it over to him and he did the clean up, touch up, and smooth out sort of work. On all the others, we worked together on the IDEA and story, characters, etc., THEN I wrote a ROUGH first draft and Dave pretty much took it from there. Again, I can NOT stress enough just how good Dave really is and how much I like him and respect his contributions to our western genre. If you like a book that Dave and I wrote together, then give him the credit. If you don't like it then it is probably some thing that I did. Fair enough?

BHE: Do you write under pennames?

LH: I have but honestly do NOT remember them all. I have been writing for over 30 years. CARTER WEST is a name that Dave and I have used for some of our books; that is the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head.

BHE: Which western writers do you admire most? Any favorites?

LH: David Whitehead, Len Meares (especially Nevada Jim), Louis L'Amour and my very dear friend, the late Terry C. Johnston (he was one of the GREAT writers of our time and a warm, wonderful human being). That Hopkins guy ain't half bad either. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk (aside, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. That's from the STOOGES. I'm also a big fan of the 3 Stooges).

BHE: What or who inspires you to write?

LH: Now, I write mostly devotional/inspirational pieces and I think the "inspiration" there is pretty obvious. As far as western novels (the subject you are interested in) it is either a character or idea that I simply can NOT get away from. Believe me, I TRY, but a character or an idea will nag at me until I just have to tell the story and then the WORK begins. Oh yes, one thing that I left out when I was talking about the "how to" part of writing. Each character has a "biography". I write a biography for each character, usually about a half page to a page, so that I have some real understanding of the character and remain true to WHO the character is as the story progresses. IF I have to change something as the story moves along then I will change the story before I will change the character. Good characters will tell the story for YOU. Just put a good well-developed character into a story situation and let him or her tell YOU what they want to do. Stay TRUE to your CHARACTERS!

BHE: Before writing westerns you had an extensive career writing about the pulp heroes of the 1930s for various fan journals such as GOLDEN PERILS, ECHOES and THE PULP COLLECTOR. Which are your favorite heroes? Writers?

LH: Yes, I wrote about 100 articles about pulps, paperbacks, and collecting. My favorite pulp characters are DOC SAVAGE, THE AVENGER, and PETE RICE. I have already mentioned my fondness for paperback western hero Nevada (Big) Jim and I am a big fan of The Phantom (loved the Billy Zane movie)! Again, again, Louis L'Amour and more recently TERRY C. JOHNSTON!

BHE: What's your oddest experience as a writer? Any trouble with the Paparazzi? :)

LH: No, nobody knows who I am (not sure anybody cares). My oddest experience is when I find one of my books in a used book store or see one for sale on the internet. It always gives me an odd feeling. Since most of my books are now out of print, if I see one of my titles in nice shape and cheap, then I pick it up to give away.

BHE: Any advice for western writers just starting out?

LH: Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. How about "don't". No, no, no that's NOT nice. Sorry! My very best advice. DO IT! Sit down and WRITE! Don't talk about it. WRITE! Our old buddy Michael Avallone [Ed Noon] could write a book in the time it takes a lot of writers to get their computer warmed up. Oh yeah, I miss MIKE too! (Interviewer's note: Michael Avallone passed away a few years back.) What a great guy and an incredible character he was! Seriously, if you want to WRITE sit your fanny in the chair and WRITE. That is the ONLY way to learn it but, then, of course, what do I know ? NOT much! Again, I am a craftsman, I think (I hope) a GOOD craftsman, but I am NO artist and NO creative force. I can sit down, get to work and tell a GOOD (NOT great) story with some GOOD (NOT great) characters and I think (often times) a little humor along the way...IF I have a strong point as a writer, then I think it MIGHT be characters and humor and I am pretty fair at plotting and pacing. You remember that, Howard? We have worked together. In the little writing we did together YOU were the creative force and the WRITER (Interviewer's note: One of those works Link refers to here is a horror novel called GRIMM by Howard Hopkins and Link Hullar. Available in electronic formats it can be purchased at www.fictionwise.com & www.atlanticbridge.net).

I have some ability at plotting, pacing, and characters, but YOU did the hard WORK and the CREATIVE WORK. For sure, that's the truth. Now, how in the world did I end here from the question you asked? NO telling, when you get OLD you don't have to make excuses...back to your original question here, when you made this shift to westerns did I have any advice? I think I told you to READ the genre. Just READ it, especially the BIG names. Louis L'Amour is popular for a reason. WHY? Read him and find out. See what he can teach you about telling a good story! ALSO, get a few good books, big old reference books about the Old West, and make sure you don't write about stuff that never was and that sort of thing...how's that for advice? Well, as they say "worth what you pay for it"...FINALLY, know something about the geography, where "stuff" was and how long it took to travel and such things as that. Again, keep a few good, BIG old reference works handy and if you are NOT sure about something, then check it out.

BHE: What's next for Link Hullar?

LH: Very busy, with work, church, family, and studying for the priesthood. Again, most of the writing I do now is inspirational/devotional in nature. Although DAVE does have my draft of another western novel, so we might see that one get worked up and out as a Black Horse Western some where down the trail. What about it, Dave?

BHE: Having a degree in history must help considerably with western writing. Do you ever find your sense of story and fiction clashing with actual historical facts?

LH: Nope, try NOT to let history play much of role in my western novels. I am comfortable enough with the history that I do NOT contradict the history. That is, my novels are NOT historically inaccurate, BUT I steer clear of dealing with history in any direct fashion. I am just trying to tell a fun story with good characters. Len Meares used to say that he was not a writer but an entertainer. Well, of course, he was a FANTASTIC writer but he was also one heck of an entertainer!

BHE: Palominos or pintos?

LH: A horse is a horse of course of course. TRIGGER!

BHE: Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to talk with us. Any final words or projects you'd like to promote?

LH: No, as should be obvious by now, I am a reasonably dull old man who has had a great deal of good luck, good fortune and good friends. Folks like Dave Whitehead and Howard Hopkins and Terry C. Johnston who pushed me along the way and got me to do more than I was ever really capable of doing. I'm still not sure where all those books came from…might be another one or two in there but that remains to be seen. Nope, I am not promoting anything UNLESS you teach HISTORY, then, by all means, PLEASE, use my textbook, THE UNITED STATES: A BRIEF NARRATIVE HISTORY by Hullar & Nelson. (Amazon.com) I have a son going to college in a few years. The royalties are sincerely appreciated! Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk (there's that Stooge thing again)!

AFTERWORD by David Whitehead
A FISTFUL OF COLLABORATIONS

Having just read Howard’s interview with Link Hullar, I can’t help but think Link must’ve been talking about another David Whitehead! And as always, he’s underplaying his own great talents as a writer. So I’m very grateful for the opportunity to put the record straight...

We first collaborated on my book HELLER IN THE ROCKIES, way back in 1992, because I was more or less fully occupied with the second edition of TWENTIETH CENTURY WESTERN WRITERS at the time, wanted to write a sequel to HELLER and just didn’t have the opportunity. I knew that Link was thinking more and more about trying his own hand at writing western fiction, so I suggested he give it a go, writing the book from my synopsis. Luckily for me he agreed, and I used his draft of the story as my first draft, and took it from there. This, in a nutshell, is the way we have more or less always collaborated. One or the other of us will suggest a plot, we’ll add and amend it until we like it, Link hammers out a first draft and then I revise, polish and submit.

As Link points out in the interview, there has so far been one exception to this rule. Our book MONTANA GUNSMOKE was very much Link’s ‘baby’, and grew from his desire to write a story about folks who choose not to do the best thing, or the easiest thing, or take the course of action which will put them in the least amount of danger, but quite simply, to do the right thing (and this, I hasten to add, is the way Link lives his own life). When I received Link‘s draft of this book, everything was already there - my contribution was minimal.

But now that I think about it, there were a couple of other exceptions to the rule. These were the two books we wrote as Leonard F Meares.

Len was a great friend of ours, and following his death, his widow sent me an untitled short story she had found among his papers. It quickly became obvious that Len’s protagonists, Zack and Curly, were really thinly-disguised versions of his most famous characters, Larry and Stretch.

I soon started thinking about the possibility of expanding this story to book-length, intending it to be a sort of tribute to Len. Link thought it was a great idea, he based his draft of TIN STAR TRIO - as it came to be called - on the story, and I then messed around with his draft until we finally had a novel. The sequel, A QUEST OF HEROES, was based on an idea that had been given to Len by an Australian fan named Dave Mathewson. I remember Len mentioning to me that someone had given him a neat plot that would enable him to have all his many continuing characters team up for one big adventure. However, Len’s widow was unable to find the outline among Len’s papers, so we contacted Dave direct and luckily enough, he was only too happy to send us another copy. Link was especially good at writing in Len’s style - in fact, I’ve always considered him to be Len’s natural successor.

Our APACHERIA series, written as Carter West, has its genesis in a Commando story I had written called Rebel Raiders. I thought this tale of Galvanized Yankees was a pretty good premise for a series, and after a short but enthusiastic discussion, Link set to work, adapting the original comic-strip story into a novel.

We followed that with LOCKWOOD’S LAW and since then Link has produced the first draft of a third book, KANE’S QUEST, which is actually going to be my next project. Between us, we’ve also thrashed out a plot for the fourth book, called MONROE’S MISSION, but when we ever get to it is anyone’s guess...

I have only fond memories of the books we worked on together. There were never any arguments - not even the tiniest disagreement. But to collaborate in this fashion you must be of much the same temperament - easy-going and willing to listen to the other fellow’s point of view. You must also have absolute faith and trust in your partner! Link and I have that - have had it for years now - and we both always wanted to give of our absolute best not only for the book, but also for each other.

It makes me very proud indeed to know that we never, ever let each other down in either regard.

Link Hullar's Black Horse Westerns

WHEELER - 1992
MONTANA SHOOTOUT - 1992
BORDERTOWN WHEELER - 1993
TIN STAR TRIO - 1994 - with David Whitehead and Leonard Meares
BONES, BULLETS, AND BADMEN - 1994
PANHANDLE SHOWDOWN - 1996
A QUEST OF HEROES - 1996 - with David Whitehead and Leonard Meares
MONTANA GUNSMOKE - 1999 - "Carter West" - with David Whitehead
APACHERIA - 2000 - "Carter West" - with David Whitehead
LOCKWOOD'S LAW - 2000 - "Carter West" - with David Whitehead
HELLER IN THE ROCKIES - 1992 – with David Whitehead

ALL of the above were BLACK HORSE WESTERNS from ROBERT HALE, LTD. Two of these were REPRINTED together in paperback here in the USA with a terrific FRANK HAMILTON cover. Really super! A few of the above were reprinted in paperback (large print) editions and MONTANA GUNSMOKE was reprinted in paperback and done as a book on tape.