These notes are the collation of all the information I have been able to gather over the years concerning the SKINNER side of my family history. Skinner was my mother's maiden name. Notes on the WAGNER branch (her mother's maiden name) are found here .
SKINNER is a relatively common name - in 1881 there were approximately 6800 living in London and the Home Counties out of the total 15,600 Skinners in the country. WAGNER only accounts for 704 inhabitants and that includes all the variations of spelling. Unfortunately there were over 35,000 PAYNES!
Click here for the five generation outline descendant tree for Edward Skinner.
Edward was my 4xgreat grandfather and is the earliest Skinner relative determined so far. The only information I have is that he was a gardener and was married to Ann TOW. He would have been born about 1765/70 when George III was on the throne. We find baptismal records for five of their children in the registers of Holy Trinity, Clapham and, by implication from information given in these records, there were two other sons and one other daughter. The children that we know about are Edward (b.1792), Mary (b.1794), George (b.1797), Charles (b.1800) and Elizabeth (b.1802). Charles is the one in whom we have the most interest. Of his siblings, the only one I have been able to track thus far is George. It is possible that one of the earlier sons was called Joseph but I have no proof, as yet.
We can deduce quite a lot about George from the International Genealogical Index (IGI) and the early Censuses. He was a balance beam maker and married Catharine Ann Matilda Blindell from Spitalfields. They were married at St. Leonards, Shoreditch in 1819. They spent the early part of their married life in Shoreditch and produced the following children: George (b 1820), Catherine (b 1822), Edward (b 1825), Ann (b 1827) and Henry (b 1829). They then moved to Southwark and had a further child, Mary (b 1832). In the 1841 Census the family were living in Great Maze Pond at the back of Guys Hospital. Edward and Mary were both at home and Edward had followed his father into his trade. Ann was a resident pupil at the nearby St Olaves School for girls. In the 1851 Census Catharine is listed as a grain weight maker; Ann and Mary are the only children living at home and are both given as waiscoat makers. Ann has left by the time of the 1861 Census and it is here that we learn that Catharine was deaf. By the time of the 1871 census Catharine had died and George was living with his unmarried daughter Mary. George died in 1879.
On 16 June 1822 Charles was married to Louisa Allen at the Church of St. Mary, Newington. Louisa came from Deptford and was the daughter of John and Martha Allen. She was a minor when married and thus had to have her parents' permission.
John Allen was a joiner and, although living in Deptford, originated from Hillington, Norfolk. There is a possibility that he was related to Thomas Allen from the same area who was the famous manservant of Horatio Nelson.
From the baptismal records of The Church of the Holy Trinity, Clapham, we can identify the following children - Ann (b.1823), Charles (b.1825), Emma (b.1826), Henry (b.1827), Lydia (b.1829), Edward (b.1832) and George (b.1836). In the 1841 Census the family were living in Field Row, Clapham and Charles was described as a lamp maker journeyman (I think!)
A futher daughter, Marianne was born in 1845 and the family were then living at Bath Place, Clapham. Charles' occupation was given as tinplate worker.
Louisa died when Marianne was very young. There is record of an Ann Louisa Skinner dying in the area in 1847 which is probably her as she was referred to as such when their first child was baptised. What we do know for sure is that Charles was married again on 2nd May 1848 to Mary Ann Biles, a widow, who was the daughter of Thomas Billings. Charles was by then a gas fitter; they were both living in Dorset Street and were married in St Mary, Newington by Arthur Cyril Onslow, the Rector of Newington, who had officiated at Charles' first marriage.
Mary Biles originated from Farleigh, near Warlingham in Surrey. She married Peter Biles, a farrier, in 1825 and they had a son George. In 1841 the Biles family were living in Dorset St, Newington (although their name was recorded as Byles). After Charles and Mary Ann were married, George carried on his father's business and remained in Dorset St.
In the 1851 Census we find Charles and Mary Ann living at 22 Russell Street, Stockwell (known today as Hillyard Street) together with sons Henry (23) and Joseph (9) and daughter Mary A (6) [presumably Marianne] plus a servant and a lodger. This is the first (and only) mention of the hitherto unknown son, Joseph. A search of the BMD indexes revealed that he was registered as Joseph Charles Skinner in the last quarter of 1841. In the 1861 Census Charles and Mary Ann have moved to Bromells Buildings, Clapham together with their daughter Marianne. Charles is now listed as a tinman and brazier.
Charles died in 1865
By the time of the 1871 Census Mary Ann and Marianne are the proprietors of a china shop in Bromells Buildings. Mary Ann is listed as a china and glass dealer in the 1878 Post Office Directory for Surrey, Mary Ann died in 1879 aged 75. Marianne's story continues below..
The existence of Ann has only recently come to light because she was baptised as the daughter of Charles and Ann Louisa Skinner and thus was not associated with the other children. Ann went into domestic service and remained a spinster all her life. In 1851 she was working in the very large household of a linen draper in Bridge St, Lambeth. By 1861 she had become housekeeper to a manufacturer of elastic web in Shoreditch. She was still with him in 1871 and 1881 as cook in Hornsey as they apparently moved up the social scale. By 1891 she was 67 and had retired from domestic service and was living "on her own means" in Battersea with her younger brother George (see below). By 1901 they had both moved back to Clapham and were living with their youngest sister, Marianne, and her family. Ann probably died in 1907 aged 83.
Nothing further known, yet.
Emma became a dressmaker and at the time of the 1851 Census, when she was 24, she was visiting friends, George & Eliza Wells, at 1 Union St. Clapham. This is very close to where the family were living in 1845 at the time of Marianne's birth. On 14 March 1852 Emma married Christopher Mallett, a house painter, in Kennington Parish Church.They had five children - Emma (b 1853), Christopher (b 1854), Matilda (b 1857), George (b 1859) and Clara (b 1869). Emma died in 1877 aged 51.
Henry is my link with this generation. He became a gas fitter like his father and we find him living with his father and stepmother in the 1851 Census shortly before his marriage. He was married to Louisa Lilley in Brixton Parish Church on 3 May 1851. Their address was only given as "Brixton" and their ages as "full age". Louisa was the daughter of Nathanial Lilley a mercantile clerk. It is probable that Louisa was the daughter of a Nathaniel and Elizabeth Lilley of Leeds, Yorkshire, and was seven years older than Henry. Witnesses to the marriage were C Skinner and L Skinner, presumably his brother and sister. Henry and Louisa's story continues below.
Like her sister Ann, Lydia went into domestic service and remained unmarried. In 1841 (aged only 11) she was one of two female servants working in a household in James Street, off Larkhall Lane (today known as Gaskell Street). In 1851 she was working as a housemaid for a stock jobber on Blackheath Hill, Greenwich. In 1861 she was living with (or possibly visiting) her brother Edward and his family at Plaistow. In 1871 she was a general servant to a lady in Lambeth. We find her in the 1881 Census, aged 50, living with her married sister, Marian(ne), and family. Her occupation is given as "formerly parlour maid". She was either unable to work or was simply helping Marianne with the children, who at that time were 7, 6, 4 & 2. Lydia probably died in 1885.
Edward married Mary Ann Broadbridge in the Romford District in 1858. He was a fishmonger. They produced a string of children - Margaret (b 1860), Edward (b 1862), Alice (b 1865), Charlotte (b 1868), Alfred (b 1869) and Herbert (b 1870). The 1881 Census shows them living in West Ham with their six children. The family lived in West Ham and we find them there in the 1861, 1871 and 1881 Censuses. It is in the 1861 Census that we find his sister, Lydia, with them which confirms that this is the correct Edward. It is likely that Edward died in 1889.
Like two of his sisters, George went into domestic service and remained unmarried. In 1861 he was working as a footman to a family in Albermarle Street, Westminster. In 1871 and 1881 he was working as a butler to a barrister in Onslow Square, Kensington. By the time of the 1891 Census George was living with his sister, Ann, in Battersea and was working as a waiter. It is likely that George died early in 1901.
Joseph remains a mystery as the only record I can find of him is in the 1851 Census when he was 9.
Marianne must have had a bit of an identity crisis. She was registered as Marianne, in the 1851 and 1861 Censuses she was listed as Mary Ann but by the 1871 Census seems to have settled on Marian - the form she kept for the rest of her life. She married Henry Gready Sanders in 1872. In 1881 Marian and husband Henry lived with their four children above the china and tinware shop at 10 Bromells Buildings, just off Clapham High St. Marian worked in the shop and Henry was a pawnbrokers assistant. In 1891 they were still living at 10 Bromells Buildings but there is no mention of the shop and Henry was listed as a porter. By 1901 they had moved to 8 Wirtemburg St, Clapham and sharing the house with Marian's siblings Ann and George.
Following Henry and Louisa's marriage in 1851 the next record is the birth of a daughter Louisa Ann in late 1852. There may have been further pregnancies but the next child to survive came 5 years later - a son, Henry Charles, on 4 March 1858. In 1860 they made up for lost time and had twins Joseph and Kate Alice , followed by Elizabeth in 1862 and Rebecca in 1864.
At the time of Henry Charles' birth they were living at 2 Mary St, off Dorset St, Clapham Rd, Kennington. Mary St. was almost entirely surrounded by the Anchor Brewery. In 1861 they were still at Mary St. but by 1871 had moved to Bramah Road, Lambeth.
Family stories recount that Louisa died in the Princess Alice tragedy on the Thames on 3 September 1878, having set off on a day trip with a friend. There is no mention of her in the various coroners' reports following the tragedy, neither has a death been registered. The stories go on to report that Henry married again (possibly twice) and threw out the two boys (Henry Charles and Joseph) who went to live with two maiden aunts (Ann and Lydia?). The chronology is not supportable but it is possible that these events occurred at different times.
In fact I have now confirmed that Louisa died on 25 January 1876 of phthitis. She was 53.
At the time of the 1881 Census Henry was living with the younger four children at 14 Treherne Road, Lambeth and was recorded as being a widower.
Henry did get married again, to a young widow, Louisa Pepper, in the last quarter of 1884 - another Louisa!. Louisa was born in 1852 in White Roothing, Essex to William and Emma Pavitt. She married John Pepper in 1876 and in 1881 they were living in Harlow, but had no children. John died in 1881 at the age of 33. I don't know how Louisa met Henry but they were married in Lambeth and in 1891 we find them living in North Weald Bassett in Essex. Henry's occupation was given as plumber and gas fitter. Perhaps surprisingly, they now have two children of their own - Emily (b 1886) and Nellie Ann (b 1890). In 1891 Henry was 63 and Louisa 39. We also learn that Emily had been born in Lambeth so it is likely that they lived there for a couple of years before moving to Essex.
By 1901 the family had moved back to Lambeth and were living in South Island Place, a stone's throw from where Henry lived when he was first married.
Henry died in 1913.
Louisa was living at home at the time of the 1871 Census, age 18, and was a dressmaker. It is possible that she married in 1876 but I do not have any definite evidence of her after 1871.
Henry is the family member in whom we have the most interest as he was my great grandfather. One element of the family story is that Henry Charles ran away to sea as a boy and served one trip on the Cutty Sark as a cabin boy. The Cutty Sark was built at Dumbarton and launched in 1869. From 1870-77 it sailed in the China tea trade.
Henry Charles enlisted in the Army, at the age of 18, on 6 December 1876 as a private in the 17th Lancers. He was sent to Africa to fight in the Zulu War. He took part in the battle of Ulundi and was a member of the patrol that found the body of the Prince Imperial, son of Napoleon III, after he had been killed on 1 June 1879. At the end of the Zulu war Henry Charles returned to England and was stationed at the barracks in Canterbury. It was there that he met his wife-to-be Mary Ann Haslop Pool.
Mary Ann was the illegitimate daughter of Maria Pool, a glover, who lived in North Lane, Canterbury with her mother, Elizabeth and an older daughter (also illegitimate) called Martha who was 15 when Mary Ann was born. No father was identified on the birth certificate but I have always thought that her third name "Haslop" might be a clue to her parentage. Mary Ann was semi-literate (in later years she could read but never learnt to write) and this third name was recorded as Astelope at the time she married - presumably the registrar's best guess. She also gave her father as Thomas Pool (deceased), maybe as a face-saving exercise. There is no evidence of a Thomas Pool other than Maria's brother, who was alive at the time of Mary Ann's wedding. Mary Ann was a cripple and wore a built-up shoe to aid walking. She also had a lazy eye. In later life she was generally referred to as Polly and is listed as such in the 1901 Census.
Henry Charles (23) and Mary Ann (22) were married at the Registry Office in Canterbury on 20 March 1881. The witnesses were Alfred Allen, a Lieutenant in 2/3 Foot and a Jane Baker, probably a friend or neighbour of Mary Ann.
Because of the proximity of the date of the wedding to the census in that year (3 April) Henry Charles had the dubious honour of being enumerated twice! He appears (aged 22) with Mary Ann at their accommodation at 41 North Lane and at the Barracks (aged 24) - presumably the barracks enumeration was performed from the personnel lists.
Henry Charles and Mary Ann's story continues below
Not much is known about the fate of the other children from family lore, but the documentary evidence gives some clues. Joseph was originally a gasfitter and in 1882 married Rose Gissing. Rose hailed from Diss in Norfolk and was in domestic service in Lambeth, working for James Black, a surgeon. We find Joseph and Rose in the 1891 Census at 21 Chapel St, Lambeth with their first four children. Joseph was listed as a handyman. In the 1901 Census they were living at 5 Elliott Rd, Lambeth - literally around the corner from Treherne Rd. He was working as a plumber's labourer and is reported as having one hand - most likely as the result of an accident. He and Rose had eight children by then.
Kate was Joseph's twin sister. In the 1881 Census - she was keeping house for her father and three of her siblings at home. I can't locate her in the 1891 Census but in the 1901 Census she is 40 and single, living alone and working as a tie machinist in Lambeth. It is likely that Kate never married.
Elizabeth was originally thought to be younger than Rebecca but it appears that the 1881 Census return was mis-transcribed by the enumerator. Elizabeth worked as a tie maker but I have been unable to identify any events in her life after 1881.
Rebecca also worked as a tie maker and we know she married Frederick John Day on Christmas Day 1884 and they went on to have at least six children. Frederick was a law stationer's assistant from Camberwell and in the 1901 Census we find the family living in Newington.
After completing his tour of duty in the Army Henry Charles automatically entered the Army Reserve and was later called up into the 4th Dragoon Guards to serve in the battle of Tel-el-Kebir under Sir Garnet Wolseley in 1882. While in Egypt he was temporarily blinded by sunstroke. He also served at Matabele and later in the Boer War but in the intervening years the children were born. His war medals included the Zulu Medal and Clasp and the Egyptian and Khedive Star.
The first child was Henry, born in 1883 while they were still at Canterbury. Then came Ethel Maud in 1885 in Walworth, Fanny Elizabeth in 1887, George in 1890 and finally Mabel Maria in 1891. The last three were born in Battersea.
After Army service Henry Charles worked on the railways, first as a guard and then as a foreman. In the 1891 Census the family were living at 64 Motley Street, Battersea, at the back of the railway goods depot. In the 1901 Census they were living in 4 rooms in Bellingham Station, near Catford with all the family - even Harry(18) who was unemployed. At some stage Henry became the crossing keeper at Belvedere and the family lived in the Crossing House in Picardy Manorway and appear in the local directories of 1909 and 1912. This was young George's introduction to Belvedere, where he was to spend most of his life.
By 1914 Henry Charles had been transferred back to Bellingham. The family lived first at 82B Farley Road, Catford near Mountsfield Park, where George's wedding photograph was taken (see later), and then moved to 118 Silvermere Road where they lived the rest of their days. Apparently the main reason for the move was to get away from the public house on the corner of Ringstead Road which was becoming a bad influence.
After leaving the railway, Henry Charles worked as a labourer in the hay-pressing establishment at Woolwich Dockyard for four years before finally retiring in February 1920.
He died in Lewisham Hospital on 6 May 1940 after suffering a stroke at the age of 82. Mary Ann survived him for a further five years and died on 24 June 1945 at the age of 86. Both are interred in Hither Green Cemetery.
Not a great deal is known about Harry. After school he obtained work on the railways and then was called up to serve in World War I. After the war he lived in rooms in West St, Erith, near Ballast Wharf, with his wife Martha. They split up and he ended up living with his brother George and his wife (my grandparents) in Burgess Cottages.
However, Harry was a drunkard and used to get in fights a lot. He is also believed to have stolen my grandmother's engagement ring. Eventually George and Ellen could stand him no longer and he went to live with his parents at Catford.
He had difficulty finding employment after the war and eventually the Salvation Army got him a job as a doorman at Lyons Corner House in Leicester Square, where he stayed until he retired.
He ended up living with a widow called Em at Penge. When he died, in about 1954, he went into a pauper's grave as Em maintained he was only a lodger. It is thought that Em ended up with the war medals of the Skinners and the Tennucis (see later).
Ethel married Arthur Gooch with whom she had two children (Ethel) Mabel, born in 1910 and Sidney Arthur Alfred, born in 1914. Mabel married John Robertson who ended up as a Detective Chief Superintendent in the fingerprint department at Scotland Yard. Arthur was in the Royal Engineers and was killed in WWI.
Ethel was a postmistress and through her work met and eventually married Ben Charlton who was the manager at Woolwich Post Office. They had one son of their own, Alan, in 1925. Ethel died in 1971.
Fanny's story is tied up with the Tennuci family and so this seems a good place to introduce them. The four Tennuci boys were friends of the Skinners. Bert, Charles and Percy were all officers in the army during WWI. Vic was in the fire service, following in the footsteps of his father, Charles. When the war ended, the boys lodged with the Skinners at Catford.
Fanny married Bert (Albert) Tennuci and they bought a public house, The Prince Albert, in Tobago St, Millwall. George and his wife and kids (see later) would often visit the pub on Sunday mornings but the girls didn't like it much as some of the clientele were rough. Being by the docks, the lascars from the ships would often visit selling scarves and such.
Bert died in about 1927 and Fanny had to get someone in the manage the pub. This was George (surname unknown) who was separated from his wife. Fanny and George kept the pub until he died.
There is a family story that Henry Charles visited his daughter at the pub every Monday, travelling from Catford on the bus and then by foot through the tunnel. He collected all the washing, taking it home for Mary Ann to wash, and returning it the next week.
Fanny had no children and died at only 52 in 1939 - one year before her father.
George Skinner was my grandfather.
When George left school he went to work at the Callenders Cable factory in Crabtree Manorway, Belvedere. When his parents moved to Catford he continued to work at Callenders, travelling daily from Catford on the bus.
He first met Eleanor Wagner outside Christ Church in Bexleyheath (I don't think he ever went inside). Ellen was working "in service" in Knoll Road, Bexley for a family who were related to Mr Monkton, a director of Waterlows Paper, who lived at the White Lodge, Woolwich Road.
On his way into work George would often join the other workers for an early morning cup of tea at the shop at 6 Burgess Cottages in Crabtree Manorway which was owned by the Brooks family. This was really a grocers shop but it used to cater for the needs of the Callenders workers. George mentioned that he was looking for "rooms" as he was planning to get married and Cissy Brooks said that part of the house next door was available, Which is how George and Ellen came to live in the 'flat' at 5 Burgess Cottages.
The family story continues below.
Mabel was a hunchback but a very attractive and loveable girl. She was "walking out" with George's friend Ben Johnson but she died in 1915 at the age of 24.
George and Ellen were married at St. Lawrence's Church, Catford on 1 June 1914. George was 24 and Ellen 29. Interestingly George's father appears on the certificate as Henry Thomas Skinner, a policeman. George's best man was his friend Ben Johnson who worked with him at Callenders and lived at Caldy Road, Belvedere. Ellen was given away by her uncle, Charles Frederick Septimus Wagner. The wedding photograph was taken in Mountfield Park and fortunately most of the people in the photograph have been identified.
And so back to the flat at Burgess Cottages which was really rooms with shared hallway and stairs. The other tenants were William and Sabina Smith who became good friends of the Skinners. An interesting social comment is that throughout their lives Ellen and Sabina only ever addressed each other at Mrs Smith and Mrs Skinner.
When the war came George was not eligible for service because of psoriasis and so he continued working at Callenders. Ellen would on occasions become house sitter at White Lodge for her previous employers' family when they went on holiday. George and Ellen didn't have a holiday until 1938 when they went to Ramsgate.
The first child to be born was Ruby Ellen (my mother) in 1915. Ruby was named after Ruby Binden, the daughter of the people who ran the butchers shop at Catford where Henry Charles used to do the shopping. In 1917 George Edward Henry was born followed by Lily Maud in 1918. Unfortunately Lily died in infancy. Then came Edith Ethel in 1920 and Albert in 1924.
All of the children were born in Burgess Cottages, as were all of the Smith children and Ellen and Sabina used to cover for each other during their confinements.
In 1933 the family moved into rooms at 241 Lower Road Belvedere. The house was owned by the Ford family; the rent was 16/- per week. Shortly before Ruby married in 1938 the family made their last move to 37 Poplar Mount.
All his life George was keen on sport and music and had plenty of opportunity to pursue these interests within the social facilities provided at Callenders. Their sports and social club was extremely active and of course the Callenders Band was world famous. Two of the children played in the band before pursuing their careers - George (euphonium) and Albert (cornet).
George died at the early age of 55 in 1945. Ellen continued to live at Poplar Mount, which was eventually bought by Albert, and then, on his marriage, with Albert and his family at Elmwood Drive, Bexley. Ellen died at the age of 88 in 1973.
At the time of writing Ruby, Edith and Albert are alive and I will leave it to their families to write their histories. George, a professional footballer, died in 2002. This tribute was published by Tottenham Hotspur F.C. in their match program for October 20 2002.
Updated 26 November 2007