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I began with that change in musical
direction. Everyone is talking about it possibly because they
were all expecting more flavour of the month noisecore. Did you
feel you went too far with that change or was it what you wanted?
"We feel amazingly comfortable with everything we've done
musically on 'Jupiter'. It has a lot to do with becoming comfortable
with a certain line-up of people to make music with together.
In the past, that was almost never the case, since there was
always a question of a particular person's motives with the kind
of music we were writing... as in writing to please a crowd or
writing to make songs more exciting for people to maybe dance
or mosh to."
At what point did the band feel that its
noisecore had been taken as far it could.
"Probably when I began loathing the way I was singing in
Cave In. I wasn't a screamer from the get-go, I played in bands
prior to Cave In that sounded closer to the present-day Cave
In. Recording "Until..." was an absolute nightmare.
I couldn't speak for about a week afterwards. It also had a lot
to do with the kinds of songs we began to write as a 4-piece.
Downsizing our band made a huge difference, we had a new kind
of freedom and one less ego to butt heads with. Songs could finally
be written without the notion of entertaining a fifth member/solo
vocalist."
That sudden change in musical direction
suggests that the band is more comfortable playing this way,
having already drained noisecore of all its potential.
"I think we want to step up and make an album that's beyond
our limitations as a band, and learn how to model ourselves after
this record once it's completed. Which is sort of the opposite
of 'Jupiter', where the songs appear in a form that's very easy
to replicate live, from a playing standpoint. There's no guitar
overdubs, there's only 1 vocal track on each song, it's almost
like a "live" studio record. We released an EP called
'Creative Eclipses' prior to 'Jupiter' that was a hint at what
we were about to strive for musically. Because of it's length
and it's non-album-like flow, perhaps the Cave In metalheads
just assumed we were "playing around", that we'd get
back to the metal tinge on our next "real" record.
It's really a mixed bag, there seems to be an equal amount of
surprised folks as there are folks with the magic 8 balls. I
wouldn't say the band is going to get any quieter. More dynamic,
perhaps, but when it's supposed to be loud, it will be maybe
even louder than before. We'll see what kind of contraptions
we can acquire to make noises with, that sometimes sparks the
right idea for a good song."
So some of those fans subsequently
felt that Cave In had turned their back on the noisecore scene?
"Some people, I'm sure, but this band has never been about
pleasing other people. Our music doesn't leave the rehearsal
space until the band is satisfied with it. And I've never vowed
myself as part of any 'scene' to begin with, and that's made
all the difference in what we've done musically in the past two
years. We have a lot of new people coming to see the band. We've
made a conscious effort to play more shows with bands that would
draw people who might like the sounds of "Jupiter".
We're not playing on straight-up metal hardcore bills anymore.
Another thing I've noticed is how the male-to-female ratio at
our shows have evened out much more since we released 'Jupiter'."
To outsiders, 'Jupiter' sounds beautifully
constructed, played and produced, with a crystal clear sound
that highlighted the shimmering guitars and vast drum beats.
Did the band feel as good about it as I did?
"Well, no... and that has more
to do with not being able to spend as much time and money on
the record as we would have liked to. But that's a consequence
of being on a smaller label [Hydra Head]. Given the time and
money, we could have beefed up some of the studio trickiness
and/or made better mixes. However, I'm very happy with the performances...
I don't think we could have played some of the songs any better.
We began writing material for 'Jupiter' as soon as we came off
touring with the Dillinger Escape Plan and Converge in the winter
of 1998-1999. The first song we wrote for the album was 'Innuendo
& Out the Other', which had a completely different ending
to the song in it's first incarnation."
Which current bands do members of
Cave In like?
"We started out wanting to be like our favourite hardcore
bands, like Converge, Piebald, and Threadbare. Musically? I can
hand pick the bands I like, if that's of anything meaningful:
Neurosis, Isis, the Dillinger Escape Plan, Converge, National
Acrobat, Euclid, Barbaro...There's lots of different things in
rotation in the van stereo. From this past tour, we've had everything
from Bruce Springsteen, Cinerama, Miles Davis, Old Man Gloom,
Bjork to Hank Williams, the Beatles, At the Drive-In, Botch..."
Are Cave In members involved in side projects
or other bands?
"Caleb played in Old Man Gloom, I'm part of a duo with Mike
Law of Euclid called the New Idea Society, and I also release
records on my own."
If we go back to that change in direction,
can we put it down to you guys taking on board a lot more influences?
That list of bands you guys like is quite a broad choice.
"Sort of... it's more of a reflection of letting certain
influences shine more naturally this time around. Where as in
the past, the formula was always "Let's make Failure sound
like they're covering Slayer" or "Let's make Unwound
sound like they're covering At the Gates". Cave In is less
of that kind of musical alchemy nowadays."
A lot has been made of apparent Radiohead
influences. I don't know if that is just journalists being lazy.
Have you guys been into them, and if so what do you think of
'Kid A' [an album I worship]?
"Yeah, but it's like, who isn't talking about Radiohead
these days? They're great, but the bigger appeal they have to
me is the musical freedom that they project, the sense that they're
in control and that worrying about singles is a thing of the
past."
Is there one band member that could be
regarded as Cave In's driving force who is willing to suggest
changes in direction?
"Musically, that's always been my department. But I'm also
a moody bastard, and I need the balance of good people around
to keep my head in check. And I'm terrible with road directions.
Cave In wouldn't have left Massachusetts if I were the sole pilot
in the vehicle!"
 Er... right. Then,
pick one song off 'Jupiter' and talk us through its creative
process.
"I suppose I'll go with the song 'Jupiter' because it was
the last song we worked on for the album. The music came fairly
quickly, I had demoed a couple of the parts on my 4-track and
brought them to practice. Instantly, the song came together,
I had J.R. pretend he was Kellii Scott of Failure for the first
drum beat. Lyrically, I had parts kind of strewn around my notebook
and when it came time to piece together what I wanted to essentially
make a love song, it was easier than I had anticipated. I wrote
some of the lyrics in a restaurant/book store my girlfriend used
to work at, and some of them came to me on the plane trip to
D.C. to record my vocals for the album. Technically, 'Jupiter'
songs are way less of a strain on our wrists than, say, 'Until
Your Heart Stops'. It was a lot easier to get better takes of
'Jupiter' songs than anything else we've done, in my opinion,
because based on each person's overall abilities, I think we
play better as the band we are today than when we were a metal
band. Brian McTernan was also a huge importance in helping us
decide upon good and bad takes of a song."
Do you guys worry about the quality of
your instruments or do you just make the best of what you've
got?
"It's somewhere in between. I'm anal about having good guitar
intonation, it helps me sing in key easier. And a guitar that
can stay in tune, I just can't deal with guitars that can't stay
in tune! I don't think I'm unreasonable here, do you?!"
You're making sense, man. And you guys
believe in creating music by writing it down as standard musical
notation. Yeah?
"Hah hah, we're too lazy for that. I can barely get myself
motivated to piece together lyrics in time for a recording sometimes."
Speaking of lyrics do you think people
care much for lyrics nowadays?
"Yeah, sure. My girlfriend judges whether or not a song
is a good one by the lyrics, and I'm sure she's not the only
one. I've been turned off by a good song because of poor lyrics.
And since you have an overabundance of music being released these
days, and certain genres of music become flooded, perhaps lyrics
are the one way to help weed through the stuff that's meaningful
and the stuff that really isn't."
To be fair, your lyrics are kinda heavyweight,
dense and cryptic. Are you the kind of band that likes to tell
people what the lyrics actually mean?
"If people ask, I usually don't mind. I don't get over personal
about them, because not only to I value my privacy, I also don't
want to ruin what someone else may get out of a lyric. I admire
Elliott Smith's ability to state things in a short, but sharp
kind of way. The idea of Syd Barrett always intrigues me, not
neccesarily the words he's singing, but the feeling of that underlying
psychosis in his delivery is very inspirational. Words are very
musical to me. Mnemonics are a key factor in Cave In lyrics much
of the time. It gets me stuck sometimes, because a certain word
or words will just sound like they belong in the context of a
certain guitar part or drum rhythm, and then I have to somehow
make sure that these words don't stray too far from a lyrical
theme."
Underground bands like Cave In are very
talented and create off their own backs. But I believe there
is a political angle to being in any band in terms of deserving
help from the State. Do you think the state is doing its bit
to support the grass roots music community?
"I'm not sure how to answer this question. Pop culture music
today is sickening, disturbing, and almost unavoidable. Since
the state feels no threat to itself by this, I would assume that
the notion of promoting positives through rock music (like some
bands did in the early 90's) has been looked upon as an out-of-sight-out-of-mind
thing by anyone with a means of political power."
What would you like to see the state do
to encourage musical projects among young people?
"Music programs in schools could always use a facelift of
some sort. It's too bad that playing music is still looked upon
as something of a phase that, as you get older, you'll grow out
of to go on to getting regular, ordinary 9-5 jobs in the workplace
and reflect back upon your days with the guitar as "your
college years" or something stupid like that."
As proven creative people, do you feel
the state has a duty to contribute to your continuation as a
band through finances, facilities or equipment?
"Hmmm, I think that's the case in countries like Canada.
The guys in Ire were telling us how they applied for a loan from
the state for additional tour support, I'm not sure that's something
you can do here in the States. The best we can do is save all
our receipts so we can write them off on our tax returns. We've
acquired most of our equipment through our own hard work, though.
We are by no means living off the band! That is not to say, that
we wouldn't like for that to change in the future... "
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